Author Topic: Wrong Colour Space Conversion (WD Confirm FIXED and in next firmware, no ETA)  (Read 21906 times)

January 21, 2010, 09:04:16 AM
Reply #30

kebien

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But you do have options to encode the file any way you want,right?
Why not comply with what the wdtv expect from the file,instead of butting heads with manufacturers and developers?

Isn't a way you can encode using settings that solve the problem without causing the fault of the hardware/software of the device?
Isn't a bit too much to ask for a $100 device? (and more knowing even the more expensive ones do the same exact thing?
Are you approaching the solution from the right angle?
Just saying
If those 9 months were spent finding the right encoding settings,instead of placing claims that seem to fall in deaf ears,maybe using the wdtv would be a pleasant experience.
(I'm assuming you can work the chroma settings in encoders/video editors,of course)

January 21, 2010, 12:51:30 PM
Reply #31

SiegeX

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Being asked to re-encode every source material you have to add the BT.709 flag when the player should be using BT.709 in the first place is an unreasonable request.  The firmware apparently supports resolution auto-detection to set the decoding matrix but there was an apparent luck of customer education that this was the option to use, rather than defaulting to Rec.601.  So yes, he is approaching the solution from the correct angle.  What you propose is not a solution but a work around until WD (and PCH) get their act together.

January 22, 2010, 08:47:28 AM
Reply #32

Hokeysmoke

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But you do have options to encode the file any way you want,right?
No, I don't.  I want to be able to play back files that were encoded by someone else, mostly from my TiVo DVR.  They were encoded correctly by the networks and the local affiliates according to the ATSC standards, and yet the Sigma-based players cannot decode them properly.

January 29, 2010, 02:38:45 AM
Reply #33

coastline

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Looks like Syabas are addressing this problem on the C-200, A-100, and A110!

They have a firmware update in beta (C-200) which seems to work!

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=19366&page=12

So why am I still waiting for WD to give an informed response to my support query after 2 months?  ??? :(

Lost patience with them so rang up this morning and told them I wanted a response by end of business Monday!  Won't be holding my breath!


January 29, 2010, 04:31:24 AM
Reply #34

coastline

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Well, that's it!  I am officially lost for words (My Wife will tell you that that is genuine cause for concern :))!

I finally received my response from WD and I have to say I don't know how to reply:

According to "Western Digital" the correct choice of colour space is not considered an "important" or "useful" feature!!

So what do you guys think about that, and the fact it took them two months and a threat to go to the press for them to say it.

I'd appreciate some help to put together a more technically based response than I am able to give - any help would be greatly appreciated.

 
Please see their response below:

*************************************
Dear Anthony,

I sincerely apologize for the delay in our answer.

We where actually in touch with Sigma and our developer in the USA so that I wasn't actually able to give you a proper and official reply without counting with their opinion first. I didn't wanted to give you a partial answer that may be taken for an attempt to hide our responsibilities or getting rid of you with a cheap answer.

The feedback that I got is the following:

Our developers are in fact aware of the existence of the possibility within the Sigma chips of detecting whether a files is using the H.601 or the H.709 colourspace. It was however decided not to make use of this feature. Please note that sometimes when programming for a given hardware developers have to choose between available features and decide which ones need to be implemented and which not. In this case our developers chose to not implement this feature. I can unfortunately not give you a detailed answer about why.

Regarding the question on whether this may be implemented in a future firmware update I cannot give you any answer as it depends on whether this feature is really considered important or useful. In this case the solution is rather trivial as it can easily be done from the encoding software itself.

If you however consider that it would be an important functionality to or may improve the user's experience I encourage you to write it down in a structured form including all the knowledge and information gathered by you and post it in the our Ideas Lab: http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-TV-Live-Ideas/idb-p/idea

Please note that this is a relatively new functionality within the WD community forums. The forums are monitored by our developers and a dedicated web master (besides ourselves). This site is being constantly improved in order to canalize the knowledge of the community of users and improve the way they have to directly talk to us avoiding if possible gaps or failures in our communication like the one you experienced and for which I again sincerely apologize.

Looking forward to hearing from you in the forums.

Kind regards,

Enric Martinez

Western Digital Technical Support

« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 04:44:38 AM by coastline »

January 29, 2010, 10:35:51 AM
Reply #35

coastline

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Well now - perhaps a little progress!

I was going to leave a reply to WD until after some response from others but my impatience got the better of me.

By the time I got back this evening I had received two replies.  The first one lets say was not very helpful and did little to enhance my view of WD support but luckily a further e-mail was sent by the same guy 17 minutes after the first.

I won't include what was in the first reply but the second is shown below:

**************************

Dear ..........

I have finally initiated our internal procedure to officially raise this issue as a bug instead of just commenting it to the developers.

The procedure may take some time and I will not get an reply of whther it has been accepted or not until Monday, I will however keep you informed.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Enric Martinez
Western Digital Technical Support

**********************************

Fingers crossed - I'll keep you posted.  Thanks to everyone who has posted here and on other forums and who have worked on getting this BUG (yes, not feature) acknowledged and dealt with.  Special thanks to Hokeysmoke.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 11:17:42 AM by coastline »

January 29, 2010, 12:58:42 PM
Reply #36

wiiBox

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Great stuff coastline!  Short of marching on the streets, I'm right behind you!   :D

January 29, 2010, 01:02:20 PM
Reply #37

coastline

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January 29, 2010, 09:01:38 PM
Reply #38

Whoheart

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Issue:  WDTV along with some other devices using Sigma chipsets (eg popcorn hour) incorrectly use BT.601 (not BT.709) as the default Colour space Matrix to decode unflagged HD material.  Most Bluray content is unflagged.

Isn't the it the fault of those authoring Blurays that they don't flag it? Perhaps someone should complain to them.
If you think there is something wrong with your WD device contact them and then act upon that: Either wait or move on - don't whine here - this is not WD's board. If you have a problem, start a thread and ask - perhaps someone knows the answer.

January 30, 2010, 04:38:49 AM
Reply #39

coastline

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I do see where you are coming from Wholeheart but you are assuming that colour space description flagging is mandatory within the current standard.

It does not seem likely to me that the Studios are just ignoring this part of the standard for some reason, but even so Blu-Ray players seem to cope with unflagged material without too much fuss.  Blu-Ray Players I believe choose the default colour space for unflagged material based on Resolution (ie. HD material=BT.709  and SD= BT.601).

If anyone out there does have better knowledge of the standards I would be very interested to know if they do state that colour space flagging is mandatory.  I have asked ITU but I'm not sure if they are set-up for answering questions like this from consumers and for some reason you need to subscribe to get access to the standards.





February 01, 2010, 08:05:22 AM
Reply #40

Hokeysmoke

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BT.601 only covers 525 line and 625 line video.  BT.709 covers HDTV including 1080p.  There is no standard other than BT.709 for HDTV consumer video.  Why should the content be flagged if it's the only standard?  The answer is that it should be flagged if for some reason the content was not encoded using the HDTV standard, such as when standard definition content has been upscaled to HDTV.

The HDMI, cable, DVB and ATSC broadcast standards all say that HDTV content should be assumed to be encoded with BT.709 unless flagged otherwise.

February 02, 2010, 12:46:49 AM
Reply #41

coastline

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I am happy to report the following:

This issue has finally been accepted as a bug by Western Digital and is now included on their list of problems to fix.  NO ETA of fix but apparently it is a "TRIVIAL" change so should not too take long!

WD's response below:

*************************************

Dear Mr. ........,

In fact I raised an ITR on Friday, this is an internal procedure to inform about a problem and request resolution directly to the developers. This is always accepted. I just wanted to acknowledge your reply on Monday and inform you about the answer that I got from the USA.

You can indeed understand that the issue has been officially recognized as a bug and that it has been included into the list of problems and features to be worked on. AS commented, I can however not give you an ETA on when the correction will be included into a new firmware update. As this seems to be a rather trivial change I hope it shouldn't take too long to implement.

Sincerely,

Enric Martinez
Western Digital Technical Support

*************************************

So, that appears to be that!  Can't say it was the easiest or most pleasant experience of customer support but I'll live. 

February 19, 2010, 02:20:57 AM
Reply #42

coastline

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WooHoo! ;D  ;D  ;D

19/2 WD confirm that this BUG has been fixed and will be available in the next firmware update, no ETA on when that will be released!  Hopefully it won't be too long though!

http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-TV-Live-Ideas/Wrong-Colour-Space-used-for-unflagged-HD-material/idc-p/11238#M1254

February 19, 2010, 11:32:19 AM
Reply #43

highdensity

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Great news Coastline!
Looks like your persistence has paid off for us all. Now I can keep my WD's and wait (im)patiently for the next firmware release.

Thanks  :D

February 19, 2010, 07:59:19 PM
Reply #44

Whoheart

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WooHoo! ;D  ;D  ;D

19/2 WD confirm that this BUG has been fixed and will be available in the next firmware update, no ETA on when that will be released!  Hopefully it won't be too long though!


You are a shiny beacon of inspiration to as all coastline  ;D

Now, if only you could get them to add a "skip back 10 seconds" feature :)
If you think there is something wrong with your WD device contact them and then act upon that: Either wait or move on - don't whine here - this is not WD's board. If you have a problem, start a thread and ask - perhaps someone knows the answer.