Author Topic: it's growing fast..we need to organize!  (Read 9822 times)

July 26, 2009, 08:50:50 PM
Read 9822 times

powerleakin

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Hi guys. been a while since i last logged in.

I see that many people are doing many great things here, ranging from app packs to xml stuff. It's becoming very hard to follow up with things(especially when you don't login for a while) as there is no proper database. There are 2 threads that have been stickyed for this purpose but that did not solve the problem,imho.

What we need is a database system. I propose:

1. A database system broken into categories: Firmware, Addon Applications, Themes, Dependency and any other categories necessary (for instance, there can be category for experimental ideas)

2.I propose each listing in the database should have the following criteria.

a) a description of what it does
 -This is necessary so that you can quickly know what it does..
- And with newbies at heart, i hope we can keep it easy to understand(not too technical...it's just a description rite?)

b) some screenshots showing the function/feature/addon/theme
-So that people can get the idea easily.

c) Dependencies Needed
-wat firmware is needed, what optware app is needed, whether other app like webserver or event osd is needed

d) Proper Instructions On Installing & Uninstalling
-again i hope that it can be kept as simple as possible too for the newbies.

e)a comprehensive changelog
-With this, then we can quickly know what has been improved and updated.

d)Limitation & Known Issue
-If the limitation has been solved in a newer release, then instead of removing it, a cross across it and the version number resolved should be good.

e)Download Link
-i suggest mediafire because you can have a folder there. so,when you keep uploading your new releases there, you are at the same time creating an archive,so people can still get the older version if they want it.

f) A link to wdtvforum-discussion link
-link to the corresponding thread in our forum so that ppl can post feedback,suggestion or ask question regarding the app/theme/addon.

g)Road Map (optional)


If you guys agree with me and we do this, we will have a website which will always be easy to follow. Even if someone just bought a WDTV and is new to the WDTV world, by coming to the database, they can quickly know what they can do with their WDTV.

Looking back at my proposal, I guess some might think that the are too many criteria and it's a waste of time. But I beg to differ. If we are going to create a system, I guess it's only fair we make it as friendly as possible to newbies. I noticed that our forum is a great resource for WDTV, in fact the best I'd say. But I must admit it's quite a challenge at times for those not too technically informed. Sometimes the description in the thread is quite technical. For example the xml sheet stuff. I understand that it somehow uses tvixe and moviedb but i don't know the status of it nor how to use it. Just to prove a point, if we have the system, I would have known the status and how to use it very easily.

Actually it just occurred to me that, it's not the newbies alone that will appreciate simplicity. In fact,i believe everyone including developers will appreciate it. So, again I propose, that if we were to do this system,let's do it with simplicity as the theme.

Jay Allan, i think it should be part of the wdtvforum.com domain too, and as said above, you can tie it to the forum by the discussion link. I don't know much about the technical side of building a system like this, but i can help out with ideas on the structure, usability and etc...

I hope that everyone supports this idea. Support it by posting a reply.

Looking forward for your response Jay.  :)

Thanks.

Regards,

mahen
malaysia.


July 27, 2009, 12:18:09 PM
Reply #1

elmarweber

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Hi,

I agree with the idea, the database fields make sense. Whether mediafire is the best way for downloads is debatable, as an alternative definitely, but what about offering webspace directly with the database? This way everything is at one place.

I did a quick search and found a download system that has all required features: screenshots, custom fields, categories, HTML for extended descriptions and a basic user system for rating and comments (although that can be disabled). I set up a test installation at http://test.elmarweber.org/. Normal user is "test" password "test", admin is "testadmin" and "testadmin". Hopefully there won't be any destructive natures reading here =)

Took it down, most people got a look at it. If you need further info, the script is from http://www.phpcredo.com/Software/PHCDownload/.

The system seems a little complex, so it does not meet the simplicity criteria, but that can probably be done by adapting the theme.

The other way would be to develop the database from ground up, can probably be done in a day or two.

ciao,
elm


« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 07:27:32 AM by elmarweber »

July 27, 2009, 04:47:30 PM
Reply #2

powerleakin

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hi elm!
actually offering home webspace is d first choice,but i didn't suggest it because then they need a good hosting service with lots of space and bandwidth and this will definitely require financing..if it's not a problem,then it definitely should be our first choice...

your system is nice..but i think as you said,if we were to use that, we should adapt it to be more user-friendly and simple.
building from scratch is a good way too...it'll perfectly fit us as it'll be purpose-built. anyone here with any ideas on it?

thanks.

July 27, 2009, 06:04:07 PM
Reply #3

bobosquishy

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The owner of these forums is already hosting a wiki.

http://www.wdtvforum.com/wiki/

To put it bluntly, the wiki is crap (no offense).  I think either he needs to be using better wiki software or simply start the whole thing over from scratch in a new direction.  Maybe he'd be open to your ideas.
I reserve the right to ignore you for any reason.

July 28, 2009, 12:04:31 AM
Reply #4

3dxr

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thats not true  we have 2 hostings one is webforum and second location WIKI/dokuwiki

wdtvforum.com/wiki is only redirector to right update web location
WIKI is obsolette I am not native english speaker and I dont have any time update WIKIpages
and people who have account isnt updating pages thats all WIKI has most important page with supported USB lan adapters
everythink else is here.

I think nobody will do new WIKI from scratch only someone who have really to much time.

somethink from history I started new thread on avsforum.com  separate thread which exist still there
it was really not possible collect many information from 30pages in single topic thread
WIKI was solution becouse our idea was extend WDTV fw features and keep our tech talk clean we have to stay locked
before end users request and simple conversion problems / first fw releases was not perfect too many bugs in each format
WDTV will have one year and will come WDTV2 soon probably we will open separate category for new model
this will need also re-organize existing WIKI (I am not sure who will do it HTML/AJAX/CSS knowledge and many freee TIME is required) I am working on other altering fw or GUI I am trying find and collect bugs in fw this is my priority.

and you are right DokuWIKI is not perfect for our project for good design is CSS required and this is not good
for easy and fast updates but other WIKI require SQL and hosting not supporting any SQL yet

July 28, 2009, 01:33:19 AM
Reply #5

powerleakin

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i think the wiki idea is digressing a bit as wiki is more for knowledge and we want a central location for all the hacks and mods..

July 28, 2009, 02:08:54 AM
Reply #6

Rev Drew

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i think the wiki idea is digressing a bit as wiki is more for knowledge and we want a central location for all the hacks and mods..

+1
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July 28, 2009, 02:39:15 AM
Reply #7

Jackson

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I agree we need more organisation.  I want to try all these great creatons but it's becoming very hard to keep track of the updates and new functions as they are posted to multiple forum threads. 

And the big issue for me is tracking the dependencies on whichever base firmwares and addons.

I'd also like to see a (single store or master list of URLs) respository for the downloads that doesn't depend on rapidshare (and less so the others of that ilk) because I never seem to be able to download the files - someone else downloading at the same time on my IP (eg if checking while at work - 1000s of staff behind a proxy means there must be more than one wdtv fan...)

Something else to capture would be how a mod co-exists with other apps.  From the threads it would appear that rtorrent can be made to work reliably but has a trendency to crash itself or other apps due to its memory use for example so advice to mugs like me not to run rtorrent and other memory hogs is useful and so on.

Personally as a non-Linux person (but 20 years in IT), I'd also like to see fairly detailed install and configuration instructions that don't require a lot of implicit Linux knowledge eg explicit locations for config files rather than assuming I know where to look.

The sticky for the firmwares was a good start but needs to be maintained with newer versions being captured.

I think we need to keep UI/Skinning mods separated from new functionality as much as possiible so we can use functionality stuff without necessarily requiring the eye candy that some of people obviously want and use. 

Obviously we do want the UI to change to make the functionality visible on TV ideally but not hardcoded to a particular skin if possible.

But finally thanks for everyone's hard work - I'm in awe of what you guys are creating!

July 28, 2009, 03:16:17 AM
Reply #8

TON

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I would vote for wiki as well. I do not think it will be easy to structure the info about all mods in such a way as it fits the database format; the mods are just too different.

Probably the best way to do it would be people documenting their mods directly in the wiki not in these threads. This way it will not require much additional effort on their side.

July 28, 2009, 03:38:36 AM
Reply #9

redindian

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A central repository seems like the best solution. The system on http://test.elmarweber.org is already a big improvement and suite most of our needs. If it can also provide older versions it has my vote!

+1 for this solution :-)

I'd also like to see a public download (like with the test site) option so eventually we can get a system to automatically download files, extract and install them. Something like with Homebrew Browser on the Wii and the XMBC plugins on the Xbox.

The Wiki can still exist as a knowledge base for other stuff. It already contains a lot of good info. Could be moved to another wiki if anyone feels like doing that.

July 28, 2009, 03:44:20 AM
Reply #10

3dxr

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WIKI is the bst solution howto create WEB 2.0 - content made by users/citizens
its only about time - knowledge use WIKI tags and ability share knowledge and explain to others ( this is the hardest part )

WIKI was closed becouse at start we has problem with end users who want create somethink like wdtv.wetpaint.com
and want stay more technical - like openwrt project anyway at start doesnt exist any documentation
there was also some bicked units  current knowledge providing still also only MOdding existing stuffs (gui and add Zoranders features)

BTW Z. where are you no response from your side also on my last emails :(

WIKI has still contain many usefull information only need redesign and update and also correct english.
Webforum is for exchanging end user opinions or share single topic knowledge both CMS are important
for sharing and expanding community

Keep on mind only strong community is power which is able request new features and keeping device longer on market
look on Linksys WRT..GS model today exist 7 next revisions and GS is still on market becouse community is using this
Linuxbased model and only non linux and pure endusers using VxWorks models.

Its very easy release each 6-12m new model and keep existing model die but community is able press on company.

another example Windows XP who wants VIsta ? nobody then exist Win7 and planned WinXP support was extended min 2 times
and Win7 will use companies when software will stop working on WXP

Back to re-designing WIKI I will open WIKI maybe soon and I am not sure if too many people will be able
work together and update content seriosly.

July 28, 2009, 03:52:02 AM
Reply #11

elmarweber

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Hi,

I think it can be done in a Wiki with a proper template and some work to ensure consistency. Although sooner or later problems with vandalism may pose a problem and there is no support for downloads.

-
The main problem with the wiki at wdtv.org not being updated anymore is that the login and register buttons are no longer on the first page =)
Before creating a new wiki its probably best to improve the existing one because most links point there.

There is also http://wdtv.wetpaint.com/, although its updated even less. I'm not sure who is behind it.

-
hi elm!
actually offering home webspace is d first choice,but i didn't suggest it because then they need a good hosting service with lots of space and bandwidth and this will definitely require financing..if it's not a problem,then it definitely should be our first choice...

The easiest way would be to use sourceforge.net for hosting, they have a fast mirror network that can handle anything. Problem there is that the software must be under an Open Source license and that would pose a problem for some mods. Hosting has been offered in the forums (see http://wdtvforum.com/main/index.php?topic=561.0), although I'm not sure which kind of bandwidth is available there. I have some dedicated servers spread around I use mostly just for web application testing, they have enough space and power, but traffic is limited around 1000GB per month without me paying more for it. Not sure if that is enough, appletrailerfs produces about 15GB traffic per month in downloads (about 300 users). Same for wdtvtools, around 40 GB/month and just a few users (mainly developers). Firmware images and themes have probably thousands of users.

ciao,
elm

July 28, 2009, 05:47:34 AM
Reply #12

powerleakin

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okay..lots of discussion..

yea elm...we can try sourceforge...can't predict the volume of ppl when apps continue grow,so don want to exhaust your bandwith..

yes red, repo is the word...
thanks jackson and red drew for the insight..

i guess if it's ok, we can start workin on elm's test page and eventually when it's done, bring it into the wdtvforum domain...this is important so that the system doesn't become redundant..we want all those who upload their creations at the forum to use the system...

July 28, 2009, 04:46:02 PM
Reply #13

Rev Drew

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I have a rapidshare account and would be willing to put any files on there.
I have had it for 3 or 4 years and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon, actually just renewed it for another 6 months..
Bandwidth is obviously not a problem, I don't think the content is an issue either..

so there is an option or solution for any files..


and no I wont be giving out my login info, you send me the files and I will upload them there and post the links..  ;D
You laugh because Iím different, I laugh because youíre all the same.

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July 29, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
Reply #14

redindian

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Although your offer is very kind, personally I don't think that is an option. It will result in exactly the same as we have now. Spread discussions with links to rapidshare files. Also if you loose interest we loose everything.

We need a central system that can be managed by multiple people. Sourceforge could be an option, since it was ment for software releases. Maybe combined with a section on the forum where only releases are posted so questions and applications are separated.

Then when a new version is out the previous thread can be closed to make sure only the most recent version is shown as first results in the topic list.